CONCOR — earnings call

The transcript as filed. Every paragraph is addressable: its link names the page and the position it sits at in the call.

Prepared remarks

LIMITED · Management

MR. AJIT KUMAR PANDA – DIRECTOR (PROJECTS & SERVICES) – CONTAINER CORPORATION OF INDIA

MR. MOHAMMAD AZHAR SHAMS – DIRECTOR (DOMESTIC) – CONTAINER CORPORATION OF INDIA

MR. PRIYA RANJAN PARHI – DIRECTOR (INTERNATIONAL MARKETING & OPERATIONS) – CONTAINER CORPORATION OF INDIA LIMITED MR. ANURAG KAPIL – DIRECTOR (FINANCE) – CONTAINER CORPORATION OF INDIA LIMITED MR. HARISH CHANDRA – EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR (FINANCE) & COMPANY SECRETARY AND CFO - CONTAINER CORPORATION OF INDIA LIMITED

Moderator · Conference Operator

MS. BHOOMIKA NAIR – DAM CAPITAL ADVISORS

LIMITED · Management

Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025

Questions and answers

Moderator · Conference Operator

The first question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities.

Amit Dixit

I have a couple of questions.

The first one is on the capex.

So while you highlighted that we will have 80 terminals, 500 rakes, 70,000 containers, is it possible to let us know a cumulative capex number till FY '28 FY '26, '27, '28 if I add all the.

And this INR855 crores revised budget, now we have already spent INR440 crores, and just two months are remaining in the year, so are you confident that we will spend this entire amount or something will flow through in FY '26?

That is the first question.

Sanjay Swarup

No, actually, we -- I am giving you estimate about this financial year.

That will be INR855 crores.

All I can say is, for the next 3 years also in the same range we will be spending.

If you remember some 4, 5 years back, we used to spend INR1,000 crores every year.

So figure will be remaining around this number.

Exact number is not possible to give at this stage.

Secondly, as I told you, INR444 crores, we have spent only to December 31st.

And January is already now getting over.

So that number I have already not told you.

So for this quarter, we will be spending the remaining amount.

We are quite confident.

That is why we have revised the budget.

We are quite confident of spending that much amount.

Amit Dixit

Okay, sir.

The second question is essentially on the growth.

So what -- given that January is already behind us and you mentioned that in January, you have seen certain growth uptick.

So what kind of volume growth can we expect in Q4 in both domestic and EXIM side?

Sanjay Swarup

At this stage, I would not like to give any numbers, but all I can say is the -- both EXIM and domestic, domestic, of course, has done very well.

They are experiencing double-digit growth.

But EXIM is also having double-digit growth in the month of January, which I'm quite confident is likely to continue up to March.

I will not like to give any number at this stage.

Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025

Moderator · Conference Operator

The next question is from the line of Lavina Quadros from Jefferies.

Lavina Quadros

Sir, just wanted to understand two or three things.

Your depreciation is lower by INR80 crores approximate run rate.

INR25 crores, I understand, is because of the depreciation policy change.

What about the balance INR50 crores?

Is it a sustainable reduction because of a quarterly basis?

Secondly, our realization in EXIM was down about 10%, right?

I know you addressed it a little bit, but just a little more color there, please?

Sanjay Swarup

Realization because of the -- volumes were down that I told you because of supply chain disruptions were there in the international movement because of geopolitical reasons.

That is why we could not do very well in EXIM in this Q3. But now everything is back to normal.

And in fact, we are getting very good volumes in EXIM.

So for depreciation, I will request my ED Finance he will explain this in details.

Harish Chandra

Good morning.

You said that depreciation has come down by INR25 crores.

That is correct.

This is for the quarter, this reduction is there.

But if we see for the period, the impact of the change in the age of our useful life of our wagon, the impact is INR79 crores.

So effectively, our wagon depreciation for the current quarter is INR12.5 crores.

And for the period, it is INR36.7 crores.

So this is the clarification.

Lavina Quadros

So you're effectively saying I should look at the 9-month depreciation trend not focus so much on the quarter, right, for the trend ahead?

Harish Chandra

Yes, yes.

Lavina Quadros

That's the way to look at it.

Okay.

Just...

Harish Chandra

It's clearly stated in the note also.

So if you see the note to the results, that has been clarified, the impact in the quarter as well as in the period.

Lavina Quadros

Understood.

And sir, just one more thing.

This -- on this realization, would it be fair to say that because volumes were weak, maybe some benefits, some pricing changes were made, which should, therefore, be corrected as volumes gradually pick up ahead?

Would that be fair to say?

Sanjay Swarup

No. We have not done any pricing change.

Normally, whatever prices we declare, we keep it stable.

We frequently don't go for pricing change.

So pricing changes were not done.

It was purely as a result of volumes.

Lavina Quadros

Okay.

And sir, lastly, if you ex out DFC, right, I mean, if I look at a 3, 5-year period, what do you think is the volume growth that you could see without DFC organically?

And would that be different once JNPT connects, if I look out 3 to 5 years?

Sanjay Swarup

Actually, whenever we make our assessment for the forecast, what will be for 3 to 5 years, we have to take DFC into picture.

Without DFC, making a forecast will not be realistic because DFC is coming in 1 year.

So realistic forecast can only be made if we take DFC into picture.

So with DFC, so very good volume growth numbers I cannot share right now.

Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025 But all I can say is that future is very good, and we have been talking to trade.

Even running double stack up to Varnama is giving us a very good response, and trains are reaching quite quickly and double-stacking and the evacuation from port is also very fast.

So these benefits are going -- we are seeing the benefits.

If Nhava Sheva also connects -- gets connected on DFC and with the CSS second terminal also coming up, it will have a capacity of 10 million TEUs.

Nhava Sheva can ended 10 million TEUs now.

So there is very good growth expected in the coming months.

Moderator · Conference Operator

The next question is from the line of Kaustav Bubna from BMSPL Capital.

Kaustav Bubna

Sir, my question was regarding the DFC only.

So could you explain to me a little bit about how much of a detail you can, providing data points of your knowledge.

About the market opportunity that's opening up for your company as the DFC becomes operational over the next couple of years?

Sanjay Swarup

DFC is going to be a game changer.

I will just give you some data.

Like Mundra port, when it is now connected to DFC and feeder loop and our Dadri terminal is also connected to DFC.

Now Dadri -- from Dadri to Mundra port, there's a distance of 1,200 kilometers.

Road is taking 55 hours to send one container from Dadri to Mundra Port.

Whereas DFC, as a result of DFC, we are running timetable trains which are called Freight Express.

We are able to take -- we are able to send the container in 38 hours from Mundra Port to -- from Dadri to Mundra Port.

So containers are catching their schedule, and it is very fast.

And we have doing our rates also.

We are doing some commercial benefits to customers.

So as a result of operational as well as commercial benefits, there is a sizable shift, almost 11% to 15% shift from road to rail between Dadri and Mundra Port.

Now when Nhava Sheva also gets connected on DFC, which is approximately 1,500 kilometers from Delhi, that will be a game changer in logistics period.

And for the national rail plan also, which is -- which was done by Indian Railways, they are expecting a rail coefficient of almost 40% to 45%, which is, at present, 18% to 19% at Nhava Sheva.

So it is going to be a game changer in the field of logistics.

Our company is also going to derive a lot of benefit from that because we have already commissioned 5 MMLPs -- 4 MMLPs on DFC, fifth one is under commissioning.

So all these 5 MMLPs will cater to the growing demand in hinterland.

And we will be running timetable trains in the collaboration with DFC and Indian railways, connecting our MMLPs to Nhava Sheva.

So this time, because of its predictability and transit assurance, this is a very big thing in logistic.

Once it is given to customers, then we are expecting a very good shift from road to rail.

Moderator · Conference Operator

The next question is from the line of Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital Advisors.

Bhoomika Nair

Sir, if you could just share first the originating volumes for the quarter?

Sanjay Swarup

Yes.

Okay.

Originating volume in EXIM was 975243 TEUs; domestic, 309551 TEUs; total 1284794 TEUs.

Sorry, this is handling, and originating EXIM 525812, domestic, 117644; and total 643456 TEUs.

Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025

Bhoomika Nair

Right.

Now so this -- just to understand this drop in realizations.

While obviously, volumes have been a bit of a challenge, particularly in EXIM, but the realization drop has got to do with some mix change, the distance is falling or exactly what has driven this decline in the realization because you said there has not been any drop or any changes in our pricing strategy, per se.

Sanjay Swarup

So the only reason is the drop in volumes.

And there's no other reason that comes to my mind because lead is also our lead in EXIM, they just slightly dip, slight -- they've been 9 months, it has come down from 708 kilometers to 704, only 4-kilometer dip is there.

Not much dip is there in the lead.

So only the reason is drop in volumes.

Bhoomika Nair

Okay.

Sir, in terms of the overall -- as we move ahead in terms of the volume pickup, you said that January has seen an uptick in terms of volume.

Now for the full year, we were already looking at a much sharper growth.

Will this now be kind of toned down?

And what is your outlook, especially from FY '26 perspective that we could look at?

Sanjay Swarup

See, FY '25, I would not like to give any further guidance because now only one quarter is remaining.

And whatever we were expecting because of the geopolitical disturbances, we could not reach that number in EXIM.

In domestic, of course, we'll be reaching that number.

But FY '26, let us wait for 2, 3 months more.

I will give a guidance in my next call.

Bhoomika Nair

Sure.

So sir, I mean, are we seeing an improvement in the overall EXIM cycle?

And do you think growth can come back out here?

And particularly, the road rail share had gone adverse a little bit.

Have we started to now start seeing volumes come back to rail in general?

Sanjay Swarup

Yes, yes.

We are seeing a very good growth in EXIM also and domestic also.

And there is a lot of demand which is there in the market, and very robust growth we are expecting.

That is why keeping all these things in mind, the Board of Directors had decided that we will increase our capex spend now.

And I think we will be able to sustain around this number only for the next 2, 3 years.

There is a lot of demand in the market.

Bhoomika Nair

Sure, sir.

And lastly, may I have the empty running for both EXIM and domestic, please, for the quarter?

Sanjay Swarup

Yes.

For the quarter, you want for this 9-month period?

Bhoomika Nair

Anything will do, sir.

Sanjay Swarup

Yes, 9-month period, EXIM was INR89.70 crores and domestic was INR220.92 crores, total INR310.61 crores.

Moderator · Conference Operator

The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama Wealth.

Achal Lohade

Sir, can you help us with the market share port wise, please?

Sanjay Swarup

Yes.

Market share at JNPT, our market share is 58%; at Mundra Port, it is 38%; at Pipavav, it is 48%.

Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025

Achal Lohade

And is it possible to get the market share for the -- this is 9 months, I presume, right, sir?

Or this is for the third quarter?

Sanjay Swarup

This is for 9 months period.

Achal Lohade

9 months, okay.

And in terms of the port mix, if you could help us with?

Sanjay Swarup

Okay.

The volumes that we are getting on port?

Achal Lohade

Yes, yes.

Sanjay Swarup

Okay.

JNPT, we are getting 33%; Mundra port, 38%, Pipavav, 10%; Visakhapatnam, 5.5%; Chennai, 3.8%; Vallarpadam 4.5%.

I think that should be enough.

Almost 95% I’ve told.

Achal Lohade

Understood.

Sir, if I put the originating volume along with the revenue number, the segment revenue, I see that the realization for domestic has gone up from 56,000 to 69,000 quarter-on- quarter.

Can you help us understand what has driven this?

Is there a significant change in terms of the mix or anything, sir?

Sanjay Swarup

Basically, it is because of the reduction in empty running in domestic.

We are getting very good circuits and traffic on both the sides.

And our domestic team has worked very hard.

And one very good initiative that we took was, the containers which were coming -- running empty in empty direction, we have given very competitive rates so that at least we get some money.

So all these steps have really given excellent results and you can see the realization gaining in domestic.

Achal Lohade

Right.

Sir, just one question, if I may.

Overall market share, would you have -- what was it in 2Q?

And what is it in 3Q, sir?

Overall market share on the CTO basis, overall rail volume?

Sanjay Swarup

I got it.

I have for 9-months period, I can give.

Quarterly, I don't have.

Achal Lohade

Yes.

Sanjay Swarup

For 9-months period, I can give.

Our EXIM market share is 55.28%, and domestic, it is 58%, total 56%.

Achal Lohade

Understood.

And just last question, if I may, sir.

You mentioned about Varnama.

You've started the train from JNPT.

Is it possible to get some sense in terms of what is the benefit in terms of A, the operational side?

And B, on the financial side, what kind of price reduction or cost reduction one can look at?

Sanjay Swarup

See, it has both the benefits, operational as well as commercial, I will tell you in brief.

Mundra Port -- sorry, Dadri from where we are running the service and Kathuwas, these are the two MMLPs in North India from where we are running double-stack service to Varnama.

From there, if we run on double-stack speed, which is because up to DFC, up to Varnama, it is going on DFC, which is giving a very good speed to us.

And almost -- in Indian railways, we Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025 are getting a speed of around 20-kilometer per hour, whereas from Dadri to Varnama, if we run on DFC, then we get an average speed of 65 to 70-kilometer per hour, which is almost 3x speed.

So it is taking 1/3 of the time in reaching Varnama.

At Varnama, we split into 2.

And this double stack has done -- is made a single stack train up to Nhava Sheva for the last 400 km of the journey.

So it is giving us the benefit in terms of transit time, number one.

Number two, commercially also, we have not revised our tariff till now.

So we are just -- we just started in the month of December.

So we have not revised our tariff.

But because on the upper deck, we have to pay 50% of rail haulage to Indian railways, so it is making a positive contribution towards my bottom line at present.

Achal Lohade

Understood.

And sorry, one more question, sir.

Is it possible to get a sense as to how much of the JNPT volume is destined for North India?

And how much of that is going on rail?

Sanjay Swarup

See, at this moment, it will not be possible for me to elaborate on this question, but I can answer you separately afterwards.

Achal Lohade

Thank you.

I’ll fall back in the queue for follow up.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Mukesh Saraf from Avendus Spark.

Please go ahead.

Mukesh Saraf

Thank you for the opportunity.

Sir, you mentioned about the rail coefficients in this quarter.

And what I see is it has largely stayed the same, say over the last few quarters.

And when I look at the port volumes, the container volume growth at say, Mundra or JNPT, it is up double digit in this quarter as well.

It's up 10% or so.

But our originating volumes are flat this quarter.

So just trying to understand, our originating volumes are flat, but the port volumes are up and the rail coefficients are flat.

This either points out to a market share loss, but you're clearly saying that you've gained market share or have kept it flat.

So could you help understand the relationship between these three data points, sir?

Sanjay Swarup

Yes.

Actually, you are not comparing the corresponding data.

The rail coefficient numbers that I told you, that are not for the quarter, that are for the 9 months period.

And market share, also I'm telling you for the 9-months period.

And there has been a drop in volumes in the third quarter only.

If you see 9-months period, our volumes in fact, have increased.

And so that is the reason.

Mukesh Saraf

So if I look at -- I mean, obviously you have not given this quarter numbers, but this quarter probably there have been a drop in market share, so then?

Sanjay Swarup

Not exactly because actually, volumes were -- in this quarter, the volumes were not very good.

So everybody has experienced a drop, not only CONCOR.

So market share drop is not there in this quarter.

Mukesh Saraf

Okay.

So there's a rail coefficient drop in this quarter basically?

Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025

Sanjay Swarup

No, no. Inward entry port has also come down

Mukesh Saraf

Okay.

All right.

Sir, I'll probably try and ask this question later on.

Sanjay Swarup

We'll take this separately; we can discuss this in detail.

Mukesh Saraf

Thanks a lot, sir.

That’s it from my side.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital.

Please go ahead.

Sumit Kishore

Sir, over the past 3 quarters, we have been listening to your commentary around drivers of volume growth around the Varnama double-stacked trains NCR to Varnama.

We have been hearing about the transportation of cement in tank containers and the pickup in rice exports.

So exactly how much volume in these three buckets are you likely to clock or expect to clock?

Could you give some sense in terms of TEUs in these three categories would be very useful, say, over the next 1 year.

Sanjay Swarup

At this moment, I don't have the numbers with me.

I can share with you separately.

Sumit Kishore

Thank you so much.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama Wealth.

Please go ahead.

Achal Lohade

Sir, can you help us with the rail coefficient for each of the port?

Sanjay Swarup

Already, I have told you in the earlier question.

But..

Achal Lohade

Port mix, I think you had said, sir.

Sanjay Swarup

I can tell you, at JNPT, rail coefficient, you want, okay?

Achal Lohade

Yes, sir.

Sanjay Swarup

Rail coefficient at JNPT in 9 months period was 15.7%; Mundra Port, it was 24%; and Pipavav port, it was 58%.

Achal Lohade

Understood.

And how about the land license fee because I remember last quarter, we had some reversal that's why the number was lower.

This quarter, the number is a little higher Q-o-Q, but it is still lower than what it was last year.

So if you could help us, what is the number as an expense we can look at as a line license fee expense in the P&L for full year FY '25, sir?

Sanjay Swarup

See line license fees, as I told you, for the terminals that we are operating on railways, it is increasing 7% every year.

So -- but we are taking steps.

And whatever terminals are not useful to us, we are surrendering.

So that is stabilized with the railways.

There is no issue on that.

So it will be around the same in the same direction.

It will move like 7% increase.

And maybe it may Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025 not increase every year also.

Like in this, you have seen from INR287 crore, I think it has gone to INR262 crores.

It has reduced in this financial year.

My director projects will further…

Ajit Kumar Panda

In the quarter if you see Q-on-Q December quarter '23, it was INR71.95 crores.

And in the current quarter, we have booked INR89.42 crores.

So -- and the adjustment whatever we did earlier in the current financial year, this quarter, there has not been any adjustment.

Achal Lohade

So is it to say that this is the run rate one could expect and see a 7% calculation?

Ajit Kumar Panda

Yes.

This is a trajectory in which we are going.

We hope to close by INR350 crores in the current financial year.

Achal Lohade

Right.

But in the next financial year, there will be 7% escalation to that, right?

Ajit Kumar Panda

Yes.

We are looking at some kind of some surrenders -- some adjustments.

So let us say, right now, yes, 7% growth will be there in the next financial year.

But still, we want to contain that.

So we are looking at some other options.

So far, they have not materialized.

But if they materialize, we may have a little less growth next year.

But the INR350 crores for this year, you can say.

Achal Lohade

Understood.

Any update on the TKD?

We were looking at switching under the Gati Shakti policy?

Ajit Kumar Panda

That, so far, that we all discuss on stage only.

That discussion has not concluded with the Ministry of Railways.

So right now, we are paying the LLF.

But we have surrendered 10% land.

So that we are -- the surrendered part, we are not paying.

So we have contained that expenditure by surrendering partially from 1.4.24.

And we'll -- as we go forward, we'll look at alternatives.

It's a dynamic thing.

Every year, there will be some small developments in some places.

So that way -- and we are trying to contain that expenditure as much as possible.

Achal Lohade

Understood.

And just last one, in terms of the volumes, of our total EXIM volume, let's say, if I were to ask on originating volume basis, how much would currently be in the regions where the DFC is going to be operating in like the Northwest pocket?

Sanjay Swarup

You mean to Mundra, Pipavav and partially Nhava Sheva, how much volume we are doing?

Achal Lohade

No, no. So of the Northwest volumes, which is NCR, Punjab, part of Rajasthan, etc., which would potentially be catered by DFC once it is fully operational, how much volume -- what kind of volume we are doing right now out of our total volume?

Is it 50%?

Is it 60%?

40%? etc.?

Sanjay Swarup

It is around 60%.

Achal Lohade

60% of our volumes are from these areas.

Have I understood right, sir?

Sanjay Swarup

55% to 60%, yes.

Achal Lohade

And if you could comment, sir, in terms of specifically Ludhiana, Punjab market or NCR market, how the demand is shaping up?

You clear for some numbers with respect to imports and exports Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025 commodity-wise.

But broadly, are you seeing a pickup in terms of the inquiries, etc., from these particular pockets or it's still -- things are still weak?

Sanjay Swarup

No, no. This is actually -- demand is already there.

A lot of demand is there in imports.

A lot of demand is there in exports.

There is a continuous exercise like -- yes.

And it is actually international trade dynamics.

When I suppose, for example, iron scrap rates supposed internationally, they increase, then iron scrap imports will come down.

After some time, it is a cyclical thing.

After some time, international rates become less, it becomes competitive, iron scrap imports will increase.

So these are the market dynamics, all of you guys are well aware.

So at present, that I was telling you in the opening remarks, we are getting very good demand at all the places around the country, we are having the demand in domestic and in both.

So that is a general statement I was making.

And across the country, in all the sectors, there is a very robust demand now.

Achal Lohade

Got it.

And just a clarification.

The 4Q double-digit growth, are you also meaning on the originating basis or just the handling basis, sir?

And was it an aggregate or just the EXIM impact?

Sanjay Swarup

Both.

Achal Lohade

4Q volume growth, you said double digit in your opening remarks.

4Q FY '25.

It is both.

Sanjay Swarup

Originating and handling.

Achal Lohade

Originating as well as handling.

On an aggregate basis, right, sir?

Sanjay Swarup

Correct.

Moderator · Conference Operator

The next question is from the line of Akash Mehta from Canada HSBC Life.

Akash Mehta

So basically, I just wanted to check in terms of the geopolitical issues kind of get resolved.

To some extent, what kind of growth we could see in terms of EXIM?

And are you seeing anything, I mean in the near term that is happening on that front?

So yes.

Sanjay Swarup

Geopolitical, if it is stabilized, then it will be very good because the vessel schedules which are quite erratic now.

And sometimes vessels will stop coming.

Then after some months, suddenly, a lot of vessels will be coming.

So all these things, uncertainties will be over, and we will be -- vessels will be running as per schedule.

Secondly, for catering to the same volume of traffic, less equipment will be required because now transit time is more.

So equipment are also -- more equipment have to be deployed by shipping lines.

Then thirdly, there will be a correction in the ocean freight also because now they have to take a longer route.

And when the geopolitical issues are resolved, then they don't have to take that long route.

So they will charge less.

So there will be very good growth in the market.

How much growth, it is Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025 very difficult to predict.

And when it will resolve that also I cannot predict right now.

It is dependent on so many factors.

Akash Mehta

Sure.

That’s it from my side.

Thank you.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Mr. Mehta, does that answer your question?

Akash Mehta

Yes.

Thank you.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Priyankar Biswas from BNB Paribas.

Please go ahead.

Priyankar Biswas

Most of the questions are answered.

Just one follow-up question here.

So since we were discussing Gati Shakti there.

So if some of the key terminals were to shift to Gati Shakti, so can you just quantify for us like how much can be the LLF linked savings, especially particularly TKD was there?

That's all I have to ask?

Sanjay Swarup

At present, our management has taken a decision that we will not be going for that option because there is a lot of uncertainty involved in.

If Brownfield terminals are migrating to Gati Shakti, then there is a big element of uncertainty.

So we have decided that we will not be using that facility provided by Indian Railways, but for Greenfield projects we are going for Gati Shakti only.

Priyankar Biswas

Sir, what's the competitive intensity in these Gati Shakti bids?

I mean what sort of TAC shares people are typically bidding, if you can shed some light?

Sanjay Swarup

What is the question?

Priyankar Biswas

What is the TAC share that people are bidding in this Gati Shakti project if you can share some light like if the bids aggressive or not?

Sanjay Swarup

It depends on the terminal where they are getting traffic.

I cannot speculate how much they will be bidding.

That is not within my ambit of discussions.

Priyankar Biswas

Okay sir.

Thank you so much.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Prateek Maheshwari from Tree Line Advisors.

Please go ahead.

Prateek Maheshwari

Actually, just I had two questions, but I have another one, just to clarify.

You said we are not going with the Gati Shakti bidding process for Tughlakabad and the other terminals which we have on the railway line.

Is that right?

Sanjay Swarup

Yes, Brownfield projects.

Prateek Maheshwari

For the Brownfield projects.

I see.

Okay.

And also like on the EBITDA level if I just look at the EBITDA level for this quarter if I understand correctly, if I look at EBITDA per ton excluding the other income it looks like it's dropped by almost 18% to 19% year-over-year.

So I'm just Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025 trying to understand what has happened because I understand lead distance have not come down, pricing has not come down.

So any light on that?

Sanjay Swarup

What number are you talking, EBITDA per ton?

Prateek Maheshwari

Yes.

Just looking at our EBITDA per ton overall?

Sanjay Swarup

EBITDA per TEU or EBITDA per ton?

Prateek Maheshwari

Sorry EBITDA per TEU.

Sanjay Swarup

EBITDA per TEU you have calculated.

Prateek Maheshwari

Yes.

Sanjay Swarup

You have taken originating TEU or handling TEU?

Prateek Maheshwari

Handling volumes.

Sanjay Swarup

No, you should take the originating volume actually that is the clear indicator because handling if we do double stack, then the same containers can manage two times.

So I would request you to take the originating numbers, then it will not be so much drop.

Prateek Maheshwari

I see.

And just one final question if may.

So on the depreciation front, right, I think this was already asked earlier.

But just to clarify, I think if I understand correctly depreciation this quarter was about INR86 crores.

And I think last quarter it was about INR166.

And I understand that INR25 crores drop can be explained by that wagon life extension thing, but I didn't really understand the explanation that you gave earlier.

So if you could please clarify again, that would be really helpful?

Ajit Kumar Panda

Yes.

If you see what we are requesting is that in this financial year, this calculation of life of wagon has been -- there was some anomaly and the anomaly has been removed.

And it has been brought in line with the actual life of the wagon that are being used in the railway system.

So now you should see the EBIT as a depreciation figure for the 9-month period, not the quarter period because once the adjustment has been done for the full year, it was -- the booking may look a little more in first two quarters and less in third quarter.

But if you add all the 3, then the correct picture emerges.

There will be drop in our depreciation figures for the 9-month period.

So you kindly see the 9-month period.

Prateek Maheshwari

I see.

Understood.

Perfect.

Thank you very much.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial.

Please go ahead.

Vaibhav Shah

Yes.

Sir, just to continue on the depreciation part.

So if you look at 9 months there is INR408 crores.

So going forward, quarterly numbers should be INR130 crores, INR140 crores per quarter?

Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025

Ajit Kumar Panda

Yes like that.

Yes.

Vaibhav Shah

And sir secondly if you look at the volume growth in domestic, in terms of handling volume it is 25% up, while in terms of originating volume it is 7% growth.

So there is a sharp ingress in the handling sector for the -- on the domestic side.

So what could be the reason for that following the sharp variation in the growth numbers?

Sanjay Swarup

My director, I will request my Director domestic to explain.

Mohammad Azhar Shams

Actually, in handling you know that some of the containers volumes we have taken from our PFTs, whatever PFT rakes we are handling.

We have taken those volumes also.

So that is the reason that the handling figure has gone up very sharply.

And the originating is only TEU volumes whatever we are doing.

So that is the main reason.

You know that at Paradeep we are handling around 50 to 60 rakes for railway wagon and at other PFTs also we are handling one or two rakes.

So at that rakes we charge higher -- asset charges and then handling charges also.

So we have been adding those volumes.

So that is the reason, basically.

Vaibhav Shah

So for Q4, the growth, if you look at the originating -- the handling growth in Q3 is 25%.

So if we assume that a similar growth count in Q4, so the difference of persistent Q4 as for on the originating side or it will minimize?

Mohammad Azhar Shams

No. Actually originating, we are going to increase from 7% what has been there to keeping in the volume and all those things because originating volume will increase.

Now the handling volume will depend that how many rakes we handle in our PFT location.

That is there.

In this quarter, the number has been quite good.

So that's why our handling number has gone up to up to 24.

It may come down also, and it may increase also keeping on keeping into the numbers of the railway rakes we handle at Paradeep and then Khatwas and all those PFT locations.

Vaibhav Shah

Okay.

So lastly if you want to look at the Q4 numbers in terms of volumes, so if we're guiding for a 10% growth in terms of -- a double-digit growth in terms of EXIM, so it should be both in EXIM [inaudible 48:16] handling as well.

Assuming a similar handling factor would be there.

Mohammad Azhar Shams

Exactly.

Vaibhav Shah

And similar could be the case for domestic as well at least for the originating part?

Mohammad Azhar Shams

Yes, actually domestic in originating and handling both will be double digit only.

We are quite confident on that.

Vaibhav Shah

Okay.

Thank you sir.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities.

Please go ahead.

Container Corporation of India Limited January 31, 2025

Amit Dixit

Just one follow-up question, if I may.

Now since this particular quarter's numbers and segments have been adjusted with the depreciation, is it possible to give the unadjusted EBIT number segment wise for this quarter?

Sanjay Swarup

Yes, but why do you want those numbers?

These are the actual numbers, which have been approved by CA auditor.

Why do you want...

Amit Dixit

Just for comparison because these numbers are not comparable with the earlier numbers?

Sanjay Swarup

But we give only one set of numbers.

We don't give two sets of numbers.

In the 9-month period is there.

We will give only one set of numbers and which have been approved by our auditors.

We don't give two, three sets of numbers for your analysis.

Sorry.

Amit Dixit

Okay.

No problem.

Okay.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Sandesh Shetty from HSBC.

Please go ahead.

Sandesh Shetty

Thank you, sir.

All my questions have been answered.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital.

Please go ahead.

Bhoomika Nair

Yes, sir.

Sir, just one data point that I just wanted was the lead distance for the domestic side, if I could get that, please?

Sanjay Swarup

Yes.

For domestic for 9 months period lead distance was 1317 kilometers.

Bhoomika Nair

Okay, Great sir.

So I think there's no more questions in the queue.

So we can end the call.

Thank you so much to all the participants and the management for giving us an opportunity to host the call.

Wishing you all the very best, sir.

Thank you.

Sanjay Swarup

Thank you very much, Bhoomika.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors Limited, that concludes this conference.

Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.

Conference Name

Container Corporation Of India Limited Earnings Conference Call

Time

January 31, 2025 at 11:30 Hrs India Time Sr. No. Name Company

HOST

Management Container Corporation Of India Limited

Ms. Bhoomika Nair Dam Capital Advisors Abhishek Rathi Northrock Capital Achal Lohade Nuvama Wealth Aditya Mungiya Kotak Mahindra Asset Management Co.

Ltd. Akash Goyal Tara Capital Akash Kumar LIC Mutual Fund Akash Mehta Canara HSBC Life Insurance Akash Rawat Bouyant Capital Akhilesh Bhandari Millennium Management Akshata Thakar Asian Market Securities Akshay Johnson Individual Investor Akshay Karwa Aviva Life Insurance Alok Deora Motilal Oswal Financial Services Aman Agrawal Carnelian Capital Ameen Pirani J.P.

Morgan Amit Bhiande Morgan Stanley Amit Dixit ICICI Securities Amit Khurana Dolat Capital Amit Kumar Determind Investment Anand Vyas Bajaj Holdings Anish Rankawat UTI Mutual Fund Ankit Jain Mirae Asset Ankita Shah Elara Capital Anshul Narayan Arete Securities Anupam Goswami B&K Securities Anurag Khadelwal Individual Investor Arun Capital Market Arun Kumar Bloomberg Ashish Individual Investor Ashish Shah Millennium Management Atul Kothari Progwell Securities Ayush Abhijeet WhiteOak Capital Management Basanth Patil N P TCG Asset Management Bharati Sawant Dam Capital Advisors Bharti Sawant Mirae Asset David Brown Aiera David Yehuda S&P Global Market Intellegence Deepak Kumar District D Devan Sangoi Tej Investment Devendar Sariipelli S&P Global Market Intellegence Dharmendra Grover Helios Capital Dhirendra Patro Parth Private Wealth Dipen Kapadia RR Investments Disha Giria Ashika Institutional Ekta Mehta Karma Capital Advisors Pvt.

Ltd. Gaurav Khanna Capgrow Capital Gaurav Narayan Saltoro Investments Gurpreet Singh Arihant Capital Harish Gawaskar Individual Investor Harshil Shah PhillipCapital Harshit Sarawagi Nuvama Wealth Hemal Murarka VT Capital THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US Total 153 Participants including the Speakers.

Participants List Chorus Call India Sr. No. Name Company Hemanth Shah SBI Life Insurance Company Hetali Maniar Share India Securities Isabel S&P Global Market Intellegence Jayvant Shah Equirus Securities Jignesh Mukwana Asian Market Securities Jinesh Kothari Elara Capital Karan Shah Onyx Capital Group Kartik Jiwani Edelweiss Kaushtab Bubna BMSPL Capital Keshav Misra Vostok Capital Kevyn Kadakia Sundaram Mutual Fund Koundinya N Jefferies Krupa Shankar Avendus Spark Kunal Mehta Individual Investor Laskhmi Narayanan Ksema Wealth Mgmgt Pvt.

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Ltd. Nitin Gupta Individual Investor Paresh Dave Balyasny Asset Management Pawan Kumar Modi Individual Investor Piyush S Sundaram Alternate Pranali Patil Iden Investments Pratik Aggrawal Individual Investor Pratik B Tara Capital Pratik Maheshwari Treeline Advisors Pritish ICICI Securities Priyanka Aditya Birla Sun Life Mutual Fund Priyankar Vishwas BNP Paribas Rachel Smiths Aiera Rahul Ingle Yashasvi Finvest Pvt.

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Ltd. Rushabh Sheth Karma Capital Advisors Pvt.

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Ltd. Sam Khan Nexa Sandesh Shetty HSBC Sanket Daidhani ICICI Prudential Mutual Fund Santosh Kumar Bloomberg Saurabh Saltoro Investments Saurabh Chugh Saltoro Investments Saurav Duggar Motilal Oswal Financial Services Shagun Kabra Individual Investor Shithika J.P.

Morgan Shiva Hariraman Pinpoint Group Shivaji Mehta Individual Investor Shivam Agarwal InCred Finance Shobhit Tiwari Canara Robeco Mutual Fund Shrey Gandhi CR Kothari Shunak Mayan Individual Investor Sidhanth Gupta Tara Capital Sreetika J.P.

Morgan Sumit Kishore Axis Capital Suraj Gupta M Solutions Tanishq Makwana Elara Capital Tisha Shah Karma Capital Advisors Pvt.

Ltd. Trusha Boring Asset Management Udit Dhekeli Bank of America Uma Ramachandran Florintree Advisors Vaibav Jain RV Investments Vaibhav Shah JM Financial Vandana Puranik Bloomberg Venkat DSP Investment Managers Vikram Suryavanshi PhillipCapital Vinay Jain Karma Capital Advisors Pvt.

Ltd. Vineet Mane Karma Capital Advisors Pvt.

Ltd. Vishal Khadelwal Bajaj Holdings Yash Hegde Dam Capital Advisors Yatin Angel Research Yatin Mata Nippon India Asset Management Chorus Call India