HFCL — earnings call
The transcript as filed. Every paragraph is addressable: its link names the page and the position it sits at in the call.
Prepared remarks
MANAGING DIRECTOR, HFCL · MR. V. R. JAIN – CFO, HFCL
MR. V.
R.
JAIN – CFO, HFCL
Moderator · Conference Operator
MR. NEERAV DALAL – MAYBANK KIM ENG
SECURITIES · Management
HFCL January 21, 2020
Moderator · Conference Operator
Thank you very much.
We will now begin the question and answer session.
The first question is from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Company.
Please go ahead.
Saket Kapoor
Firstly sir, if you could give us in the total revenue portion, how much is the O&M contract part?
We have mentioned that we are having O&M contracts of Rs.1614 crores, so have they started flowing into the numbers or it will happen later?
Mahendra Nahata
O&M contracts will start flowing in a larger number from the next year because though we have about Rs.1600 crores of O&M contracts, right now, those projects are under warranty period.
So O&M would start flowing largely from next year, but this quarter it is only Rs.15 crores to Rs.16 crores.
Saket Kapoor
For Q3, it is Rs.15 crores?
Mahendra Nahata
Yeah.
Saket Kapoor
What should be the likely number for the fourth quarter?
Will it be also in this vicinity only, Rs.15 crores to Rs.16 crores?
Mahendra Nahata
Fourth quarter would also be in the same vicinity.
They would start increasing from the mid of next year.
Saket Kapoor
And what should be the figure for next year we should be considering in, as a whole for the next year?
Mahendra Nahata
About Rs.80 crores to Rs.100 crores.
Saket Kapoor
And as on nine months, how much we have booked, I was just looking for a comparison?
Mahendra Nahata
Nine months total should have been about Rs.50 crores.
Saket Kapoor
So Rs.50 crores will go up to Rs.80 crores that is what you are saying?
Mahendra Nahata
Next whole year I said it will go about Rs.80 crores to Rs.100 crores.
Saket Kapoor
Sir, how will you explain the drop in the margins for telecom products from both sides, from revenue front also it has gone down and definitely the margins….
HFCL January 21, 2020
Mahendra Nahata
Both are interrelated.
Simply because the revenue has gone down, the margins have gone down because the fixed cost remained the same, they do not change and you do not try to remove people and do such kind of things for a shorter period when you experience such kind of a decrease in revenues for certain reasons.
So fall in margin has been due to decreased revenue, but now it started picking up again.
The revenue which was about Rs.120 crores on a consolidated basis for the 3 months in the quarter 3, we expect it to go up to about Rs.275 crores to Rs.300 crores.
So margin will improve proportionately.
Saket Kapoor
Rs.120 crores will go to Rs.275 crores to Rs.300 crores for the next quarter?
Mahendra Nahata
That is what we expect out of the current order book we have and the current delivery schedule which we have received from our customers.
Saket Kapoor
This is about telecom products and how should turnkey execution will look like sir?
Mahendra Nahata
Turnkey execution will also be doing better of course.
As I mentioned, last 3 months, weather conditions have impacted us a lot apart from situation in Jammu & Kashmir which has eased out now and weather conditions have also improved.
So from end of this month onwards, those areas where because of extreme cold, work was not being carried on, that will start.
So turnkey revenue would also show significant improvement in the current quarter.
Moderator · Conference Operator
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Hardik Vyas from Economic Times.
Please go ahead.
Hardik Vyas
Sir, I have a few questions.
I will start off with you indicated that the product revenues would go up to Rs.275 crores to Rs.300 crores that is mainly because of the rise in prices of optic fiber from the bottom or due to more orders and its execution?
Mahendra Nahata
Look, it is not the rise of prices.
Prices are same.
They have not increased either for fiber or for cable.
And when I was answering to Mr. Kapoor, one thing I missed out that the reduced turnover if you compare from the last year to this year, one of the major reasons is also reduced prices of cable compared to last year.
It has reduced by almost 30%.
So in any case, in the same quantity you manufacture, revenue would be lower by 30%.
That is one of the reasons in comparison to the last year, but anyways coming back to you, this increase in revenue for the expected revenues for Q4 for the optical fiber cable is not because of rise of the prices but because of the higher order book, order book is already there, but the higher delivery schedule which we have received from the customers in the current quarter.
The customers have now started picking up the cable which they have ordered and that increased delivery and some more new orders which we have received.
All put together, now we believe that current quarter product revenue of Rs.120 crores should go up to Rs.275 crores to Rs.300 crores.
Hardik Vyas
So that will keep on continuing for FY21 as well?
HFCL January 21, 2020
Mahendra Nahata
My expectation.
With the kind of orders we have, we expect it.
Hardik Vyas
And the service businesses also picking up?
Mahendra Nahata
Service business has remained good throughout the year.
Last quarter was little bad, not bad, little slowed down because of this weather conditions.
As I said, we are executing lot of defence projects and large part of that is in Jammu & Kashmir and also in Northeast.
Certain areas in Northeast and entire Jammu & Kashmir have a lot of issues in terms of execution because of very intense cold weather and also situation in Jammu & Kashmir that resulted in slowdown.
Otherwise, as an inherent business point of view, there has been no slowdown.
There is no decrease in business or anything.
So with the weather improving, this will go up again.
Hardik Vyas
Will you be able to quantify how much, I am just asking for a ballpark those numbers, how much will be able to execute from the current order book of Rs.8,600 crores?
Mahendra Nahata
In terms of the current year or current quarter?
Hardik Vyas
Current year, FY21 that I am asking?
Mahendra Nahata
FY21, we would be executing roughly about more than Rs.2000 crores of that order book of turnkey business.
I am not talking on the overall order book.
Overall order book includes more than turnkey business also, but the turnkey business we are talking about, Rs.2000 crores plus we will be executing in the next year, but there are more businesses.
Orders also include optical fiber cables and turnkey contracts for laying of fiber optic cables.
Defence turnkey, we will be executing about Rs.2000 crores or little bit more maybe.
Hardik Vyas
So defence, the products also we have been supplying or we have not started the supplies for defence products as yet?
Mahendra Nahata
Our own manufactured products, we have still not started supplying.
These are more of a turnkey business which we are executing right now.
Hardik Vyas
Night-vision devices and other products like.
Mahendra Nahata
They are under development.
Night vision devices as well as the electronic fuses which are under development would be ready probably by May-June timeframe.
After that, we will start supplying them.
Hardik Vyas
The second half of next year, we should start supplying?
Mahendra Nahata
Well, it all depends upon when the tenders are finalized by government.
For example, this electronic fuses tender has come out.
It is yet to be finalized.
I cannot predict when they would HFCL January 21, 2020 finalize that.
We can start supplying only when they finalize the tender.
Electro-optics, large number of tenders are expected.
We would participate, but depends upon when they finalize the tender, then we would start supplying.
Hardik Vyas
Sir, one more question.
What is the status of BSNL, are we getting our dues back or how are we looking at it?
Mahendra Nahata
Look, there are two kind of dues in BSNL.
One is the defence project which we are executing when orders have come via BSNL.
Second is the BSNL’s own requirement.
Now as far as the defence are concerned, those are very regular.
There is absolutely no problem.
We receive payment regularly, of course procedures are there.
Government have procedures for payment which takes little bit of a time, but that is not a major issue.
Defence supplies, turnkey projects for defence, we receive our payment regularly without any issue.
There are enough funds available for that particular purpose.
Now coming to BSNL, which we have supplied as a CAPEX of BSNL for BSNL’s network.
There has been a problem.
We had dues of about Rs.300 crores when I spoke to you last quarter.
After that, we have received about Rs.61 crores, out of that Rs.300 crores.
What we expect now from my talks with BSNL officials that they would now be receiving sovereign comfort or sovereign guarantee against which banks would be lending the money and with that money coming in, part of which came and from which the payments were made earlier, they would be able to clear the payments of all the suppliers of past dues by March-April timeframe.
So I am quite hopeful that because BSNL’s revival is now taking place as we all know and with that revival happening, money coming in from the banks against the sovereign comfort or guarantee.
I feel quite comfortable by March-April timeframe, the remaining Rs.240 crores or so we should be able to receive.
Hardik Vyas
Sir, the final question.
Are we looking at any drying up of orders from either telcos or government or service orders we have not been receiving any orders in the last quarter after the Rs.3000 odd crores of order that we received on NFS, we have not been seeing any new order booking.
So is that…
Mahendra Nahata
New orders have come in Optical fiber cable business, large number of new orders have come.
Turnkey business, yes, what you are saying, we did not receive much of the new orders, but they started flowing now.
I do not see any slowdown because 1) now spectrum is being auctioned, so more spectrum means more network rollout by operators, so that is one part of it.
Second is going to be 5G rollout.
5G auction is also taking place.
5G rollout will also happen and that would see large number of orders coming in from telcos.
BSNL’s revival is taking place.
So BSNL will float tenders and they would give orders.
The BharatNet PPP model is being pursued.
There again, large number of orders of fiber optical cable or turnkey business would be available.
So may be next 2-3 months, this all build up is going to happen, auction is going to happen.
BharatNet, I think is going to happen.
Maybe, in the Q1 of next financial year, I expect good amount of orders to flow.
HFCL January 21, 2020
Hardik Vyas
We expect 21-22 onwards, our hands would be full to execute all these orders which will…
Mahendra Nahata
Not even 21-22, even 20-21, I am very comfortable in terms of orders.
Hardik Vyas
So we will not be able to quantify how much growth will be looking at or something like that?
Mahendra Nahata
Very difficult to quantify.
I do not want to give a forward-looking statement like that, but I expect good amount of orders to be there and that would result in good revenue, but more important point is not the revenue, but the point is increase in profit margins.
We have made sustained efforts to increase profit margin.
So that has resulted in what is important is bottom- line, not as much as topline.
Topline is also important because that results in bottom-line, but if we increase in bottom-line with a reduced topline, it is much more important and much better for the Company.
So if you look at this year, though the topline in 9 months have reduced by few hundred crores, but we have already crossed almost equal the bottom-line of the last year of the whole year.
I think if you see the bottom-line of the 9 months to 9 months comparison, there is a very good increase.
If you see profit after tax, 9 months last year, we had made Rs.166 crores.
This year, we have already done Rs.228 crores.
So Rs.166 crores to Rs.228 crores.
Hardik Vyas
So WiFi systems and Raddef would take a little time before getting in the numbers right?
Mahendra Nahata
WiFi system revenue would start flowing in from the current year itself and next year is going to be much increased revenue.
Raddef also from the mid of the next year, revenues start flowing in.
From the certain products like WiFi, antennas and few more antennas they have designed, that would also start flowing in from the next year.
Hardik Vyas
You had told about Rs.100-200 crores of business for the entire year from WiFi systems, so that holds or you are revising it upwards?
Mahendra Nahata
I am not revising it upwards, that holds.
Hardik Vyas
And the prices of optic fiber remain the same at about $5.
Mahendra Nahata
No, it is not $5, it is $4.
I have always been saying $4.
It is $4.
Moderator · Conference Operator
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Nishit Shah from Equitas Investments.
Please go ahead.
Nishit Shah
Sir my question is that the government is planning to impose a safeguard duty on import of single mode optical fiber.
So how will that impact us and any timeline expected when will this come in?
HFCL January 21, 2020
Mahendra Nahata
Well, when will this come in, I do not know because I have been hearing that they are going to impose duty, but it is not going to impact us.
It is only going to impact us positively because we are going to start manufacturing fiber, as you know, as I said in the beginning of the call in a week’s time.
So if the import price goes up, then of course indigenous production becomes so much so better.
So we are going to start producing fiber in next 7 days.
So as far as that is concerned, it is better.
And major part of our fiber, we buy from Corning which is local supplier from Pune.
So that also is not impacted.
So we would not be impacted by any increase in the safeguard duty.
Nishit Shah
And sir you said like you are receiving orders in Q3. So are we receiving these orders from private telecom players or is it from government, how is it?
Mahendra Nahata
Private.
Nishit Shah
Private player.
And sir what are the optical fiber cable prices going on currently?
Mahendra Nahata
We can quantify in terms of fiber kilometer.
It would be different in different class, but generally you can say about Rs.
800 to Rs.
900 per fiber kilometer.
Nishit Shah
So in the last call you said around Rs.1000, right?
Mahendra Nahata
Yeah, so it is about Rs.800-900.
As I said with different class, different cable prices.
So generally you can say like Rs.
800- Rs.
900.
Nishit Shah
And sir what would be our optical fiber cable order book look like?
Mahendra Nahata
It would be about Rs.800 crores, but more orders are flowing in.
It is currently about Rs.800 crores.
Moderator · Conference Operator
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Naman Dugar from BNP Paribas.
Please go ahead.
Naman Dugar
I had picked up two statements from your last earnings transcript where you had mentioned that due to the Kashmir issue, the revenues had gone down in quarter 2 and you had clearly mentioned that quarter 3 was looking better, but exactly it has not and the other thing was that you mentioned that over about Rs.100 crores or something you are going to receive from the BSNL in this quarter, you clearly mentioned about 15 to 20 days in your last earning concall but that also doesn’t seem to have come in yet, so I would really like you to clarify again on those two statements?
Mahendra Nahata
Rs.100 crores did not happen but Rs.65 crores has come in and we expect by March-April, this is my expectation Naman you know, because of this funding issues of BSNL, they are saying that they would be receiving bank funding and all that, I expect this balance of the money HFCL January 21, 2020 which is about Rs.235 crores should be received in next 3-4 months’ time, but this is my best expectation.
In terms of Kashmir, what I said was right that this situation impacted but intense cold weather which nobody could have predicted, the kind of cold weather which has happened in Kashmir as well as Northeast which I could not have predicted.
This has also again resulted in slowdown of revenue in the last quarter, Q3 which is now starting to improve because those kinds of severe cold weather conditions in many of the areas have come down.
Only in the extreme snow bound areas of Leh, Ladakh, we are not able to start work, rest of the places now we are able to start the work.
Naman Dugar
So do we expect that HFCL will have poor quarter 3, quarter 4 every year due to weather conditions in Kashmir because most of our orders are coming from there?
Mahendra Nahata
No, you are wrong, because this is particular to the defence project, not necessarily that I would be executing the same kind of a defence project next year also.
As I mentioned very clearly, this is the defence projects which we have been executing in Northeast as well as Jammu & Kashmir.
Now once this defence project finishes and we are executing other projects, Jammu & Kashmir or Ladakh or Northeast weather will not affect us.
I never said that quarter 4 is also going to be like this, I never said that.
Quarter 4 is going to be certainly an improvement over this quarter.
Naman Dugar
And regarding promoter holding pledge, my question was regarding the acquisitions that we are going for.
We did a couple of acquisitions in these two quarters, but the promoter pledge is not coming down, a lot of money is going to be invested in new acquisitions?
Mahendra Nahata
Look, promoter pledge and acquisitions are two completely different issues.
Naman Dugar
Yes, lot of money is going there.
Mahendra Nahata
One was our Raddef acquisition and now is the 15% of this Nivetti Systems, so this is a completely separate issue.
Now what we expect in terms of promoters pledging to go down, as I mentioned last time also, pledge is absolutely not for any personal loan promoters have taken.
All the pledges are because of the loans which Company has taken and promoters have given their own shares as collateral which is commitment of promoters to our Company.
There is no personal loan of promoters against which any pledge is there.
That is very important point to note.
Number two, we expect that by March or so, some 20% or so, this pledge will come down, reason being one that some of the holding of ours have been pledged against the term loan which we have taken for starting this fiber factory in Hyderabad.
Once this fiber factory goes in operation, that is the condition, that 7% of the promoters’ pledge would be returned back to us and again 13% of the promoter’s shares have been pledged for a specific PBG which we have taken for a particular project.
This will also be over in the March 2020.
So about 20% of the pledge of the promoters’ shares will come down by March or so.
HFCL January 21, 2020
Moderator · Conference Operator
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Sanjay Shah from Alphaline Wealth Advisors.
Please go ahead.
Sanjay Shah
Sir, it is appreciable that in spite of this challenging scenario, we have been doing good on our margin count.
Now sir, how do you see, can you elaborate your view on this fiber cable demand and pricing going ahead along with the optic fiber prices and how are we going to maintain or improve our margin as you said in your last comment?
Mahendra Nahata
The fiber optic cable demand as I said has been low in the last 4 or so months, but it has started improving because of mainly due to start of BharatNet projects in number of areas where contracts had been awarded earlier but projects were not being rolled out for one or other reason.
I will give you some example.
Andhra Pradesh which had stopped in between, now it has started rolling out.
Telangana, we have received advance purchase orders very recently of about Rs.200 crores and some Rs.40 crores or so from Larsen and Toubro, they have already received the LOI and they have already started giving us delivery schedules of this rollout which would again happen in the current quarter.
Likewise, number of such projects have started being rolled out and with this, I believe that good demand of fiber optic cable coupled with more rollout of BharatNet projects under the PPP model as you already discussed will start flowing in from the current year.
Then you have rollout happening against 5G spectrum is getting allotted in the next financial year beginning because that has already been announced by government.
With the 5G rollout, what would happen is that more number of base stations will be constructed.
As a result of that, more amount of fiber optic cables have to be rolled out because 5G is something which requires a lot of fiber optic cable.
BharatNet, 5G, increased rollout on FTTH, all this would result in increased demand of fiber optic cable.
From a midterm and long term basis, I foresee fiber optic cable demand will remain very good.
Sanjay Shah
World over, there is an excess supply of optic fiber cable, that is what we have heard in prices are falling or it is remaining subdued, even of optic fiber, so how demand side we have got good demand in India as you rightly pointed out, so how do you see the pricing and how that margin will able to withhold the margin on that optic fiber cable?
Mahendra Nahata
We have to look at India first.
World over you are right, some places, particularly in China, demand has gone down, not gone down but it has not really gone up and people had increased capacity because of expectation of demand going up.
That has not happened.
Other parts of the world, demand has not gone down, it has remained static, so that overflow of capacity from China has resulted in this situation what you see worldwide in terms of excess capacity but I expect and in fact major Chinese players very recently, they also expect the Chinese demand will start increasing from the next financial year.
So in that situation, China may become little bit better than what it is today but again coming to Indian point of view, there is an import duty of 10% on fiber optic cable, so that as much as we are insulated and at the same point of time, you must also appreciate our cost of fiber optic cable is not higher than any of the Chinese manufacture.
We are able to compete very effectively.
So on an overall basis, with the increase HFCL January 21, 2020 in demand of fiber optic cable which is being sourced locally by the private operators.
Number two, BharatNet cable has to be locally sourced, I don’t find that there is any reason to believe that this price pressure of because of lack of China demand would impact us all.
In fact, we are receiving reasonable traction in export, if you remember in the last earning call I had said that we are putting more and more emphasis on exports of our fiber optic cable which has put good results.
We have a few successes in the export market which would result in reasonably good size of orders which would give us better traction from the export market in the next financial year.
Sanjay Shah
Sir, it will be prudent for us to understand that we as HFCL will do an EBITDA margin of upward of what we are doing right now, current year again for next few years blended margin I am talking?
Mahendra Nahata
Blended margin, I expect at least we would not be falling below in the current margin which we have and EBITDA margin in my opinion should be around 12 to 14% in the next financial year also.
Moderator · Conference Operator
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Kavita Thomas from First Global.
Please go ahead.
Kavita Thomas
My question is pertaining to the performance of HTL.
So sir actually if we subtract the consolidated numbers from the standalone numbers, we arrive at how HTL has performed in this particular quarter, so if I actually look at the number sir, revenues of HTL in this quarter was around Rs.41 crores, is that right?
Mahendra Nahata
Yes, you are absolutely right Kavita and that has been because HTL does only fiber optic cable and related accessories business.
Kavita Thomas
Correct.
Mahendra Nahata
And because of that, as I said the demand of fiber optic cable has been low, some of the customers, particularly those who are buying for the South Indian states, had lower demand which has resulted in HTL having a lower revenue, so but again as I said, this quarter it has improved quite a lot and we expect that HTL would also have improved performance of fiber optic cable business which is the only business in the current quarter.
Kavita Thomas
And sir, one more thing is, what I observed is even on the EBITDA margin front, what we are seeing is, over the last two quarters, even though the revenues have been a little lower, the margins were maintained at around 20%, but in this particular quarter, the EBITDA margins have fallen?
Mahendra Nahata
From where did you get this 20% number?
HFCL January 21, 2020
Kavita Thomas
Sir, if I again do the same math of subtracting the consolidated from the standalone, the EBITDA margin is around 20% third quarter, last year?
Mahendra Nahata
You are talking of HTL alone?
Kavita Thomas
Yes, HTL alone.
Mahendra Nahata
Okay.
Kavita Thomas
So as against that in this quarter, it is around 11.5-12%?
Mahendra Nahata
Because as the turnover goes down so much, EBITDA margins also have to come down because the fixed costs do not decrease.
Kavita Thomas
Is there any other reason other than that sir?
Mahendra Nahata
No, not at all.
It is basically the less turnover has resulted in this.
Moderator · Conference Operator
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Payal Lad from Progressive Shares.
Please go ahead.
Payal Lad
Sir, I wanted to ask you a couple of questions, like if you just compare the interest cost in the current quarter as compared to your last year things, so there has been a decrease, so is it like fair enough to assume, has there been any repayment in terms of borrowings as well?
Mahendra Nahata
You are talking the interest cost has decreased?
Payal Lad
Yes, the finance cost.
Mahendra Nahata
You are talking Payal, current quarter?
Payal Lad
Yes sir.
Mahendra Nahata
Our CFO will answer this question.
V. R. Jain
Last quarter, there were some enhancements of working capital limits, so bank charges one- time processing fee and all that.
So quarter-on-quarter there might be certain up and down in interest cost and there may be a situation where we give lot of bank guarantees or we open LCs, so some additional bank charges, etc., are levied, so that is how it has decreased and on the top of it, in September we also repaid some of term loans which was a bullet payment of around Rs.33 crores, so that has also impacted our interest cost being low relatively.
Payal Lad
If you could just help us with the numbers of the cash and the debt levels currently?
HFCL January 21, 2020
Mahendra Nahata
Cash and debt levels?
Payal Lad
Yes.
V. R. Jain
Debt at Consolidated level is around Rs.450 crores of working capital loans including private borrowings and term loan is around Rs.230 crores.
Mahendra Nahata
Rs.230 crores term loan also has loan of the fiber plant which we are putting up in Hyderabad.
Payal Lad
And the cash balance?
V. R. Jain
Cash balance, there is no such cash balance except for our day to day requirements.
We have lot of bank margin in the form of FDs.
Mahendra Nahata
We have working capital loans, how can we have cash balance?
V. R. Jain
Cash balance is maintained as per the day to day requirements and we have fixed deposit in the form of margins which is around Rs.200 crores or so.
Mahendra Nahata
If you count fixed deposit as cash balance, then Payal, it would be about Rs.200 crores.
Payal Lad
And sir, one last question, if you could just help us with the order breakup of Rs.8600 odd crores in terms of your different line segments?
Mahendra Nahata
Order breakup I will give you.
In terms of percentage, 50% would be from defence business, optical fiber manufacturing and turnkey all included, optical fiber would be about 10% or so, then turnkey businesses would be about 30% or so, rest would be miscellaneous.
Moderator · Conference Operator
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of S.
Kapoor, a Shareholder.
Please go ahead.
S. Kapoor
Sir, I was looking at the employee cost that has gone up for the 9 months from around Rs.126 crores to Rs.144 crores.
So as a percentage of sales, what should we be looking at the employee cost rate sir?
Mahendra Nahata
Because every year some increments also take place and also because of this optic fiber plant we are putting up, new people coming, ESOPs have been given, that has also resulted in this increase in the employee cost.
So all put together, there is marginal increase in employee cost itself.
S. Kapoor
And sir, what is the update on the warrant conversion sir, how much has been taken by the Company and how much is due and what is the timeline?
Mahendra Nahata
All converted, all fully converted.
HFCL January 21, 2020
S. Kapoor
And now they are only in the lock-in both for the promoter and the non-promoter?
Mahendra Nahata
Yes, it is in lock-in of course.
S. Kapoor
It is in the lock-in period but we have received the full money?
Mahendra Nahata
Yes, of course.
S. Kapoor
From bigger deal.
Sir, today, you and your peer comparison, we have Sterlite Technology and due to the market forces both are trading at the same PE ratios, but the contrasting part which we investors find is that no mutual fund has invested even a single share in HFCL whereas in your peers there is a large chunk being hold by the mutual fund, so where is the lacking that mutual funds are not buying this story of the same business, both the companies doing the same business, so where are we lacking that mutual funds are not participating in the growth stories and what efforts are you taking?
You are taking up, definitely there is lot of work for us by holding conference call and participating also, but where is this gap sir and what should be done that mutual fund should also participate in your growth story?
Mahendra Nahata
Why they are buying or not buying, can’t say.
Our job is to tell what we are doing and we are absolutely able to say that we are doing , what we tell that we would do and we are absolutely stuck by our forecast and all that I have given.
Now why they are not buying, well, for me it is difficult to say.
S. Kapoor
Sir, one point is there.
Sir, we don’t have a dividend distribution policy.
Sir, now you have spoken high about we posting the PBT of last year even in 9 months, but can the Company come up with quantified dividend distribution policy in the coming quarters such that we can get an idea of what would be the payout in terms of the dividend distribution?
Mahendra Nahata
Look at the last two years, we have been paying dividends, in fact we have increased from year to year.
What it would be in the next year is the board to decide.
Right now, it would not be possible for me to comment on that.
S. Kapoor
And sir, coming to the current capacity in the OFC business, what is our current expanded capacity and the utilization levels?
Mahendra Nahata
Current year, we have been able to have utilization of about 50% or so of the capacity but the capacity throughout the year has not remained same.
There have been two increments in the capacity.
Currently, now, at present, today, the capacity for HFCL and HTL put together, it is 18.5 million fiber kilometers.
S. Kapoor
And our utilization levels are currently?
HFCL January 21, 2020
Mahendra Nahata
As I said, the current year has been about 50 to 60% depending upon the demand but the next year onwards, I believe it would be significantly improved because of the improved order situation and demand from the customers.
S. Kapoor
And sir, last point about the commission part sir, what percentage of profit are paid to the KMPs as commission sir, that is I think so quantified?
Mahendra Nahata
Which KMPs?
S. Kapoor
Including you, Mr. Jain and other KMPs, the percentage of net profit being paid as in the remuneration part, what percentage do you receive?
V. R. Jain
Mr. Kapoor, no commission has been paid to the CFO and the Company Secretary.
S. Kapoor
No, not Company Secretary, I am talking about the MD, Mr. Nahata?
V. R. Jain
MD, we have paid Rs.2 crores of remuneration based on net profits of the Company.
That is only Rs.2 crores.
S. Kapoor
That is ad hoc or any percentage is there sir?
V. R. Jain
It is based on the FY19 performance.
S. Kapoor
That is what I am asking.
Is it ad hoc one or any percentage is given, 0.25, 0.3, something like that.
How do you arrive to the figure of 2 crores?
Mahendra Nahata
It is on ad hoc basis.
S. Kapoor
And this will continue on an ad hoc basis only?
V. R. Jain
Board has decided Mr. Saket to give Rs.
2 crores considering the performance in the last FY 18-19 and the total remuneration including remuneration based on net profits cannot exceed the overall ceiling of the remuneration i.e. 5% of net profits of the Company, permissible under the Companies Act, 2013.
Moderator · Conference Operator
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Naman Dugar from BNP Paribas.
Please go ahead.
Naman Dugar
Sorry, I have just missed a question.
After my first question, I went and googled weather conditions in Kashmir and Northern part of India and it seems to come across that January the first 20 days was as bad or even worse than the December period, so has the work been affected really bad this January as well?
HFCL January 21, 2020
Mahendra Nahata
Yes, as I said in little while ago that now the weather has started improving and work would start in a much better speed except in the snow bound areas which I don’t expect to start before May.
At the lower regions of Jammu and Kashmir and the Northeast also, work would now start happening by the end of the current month.
Naman Dugar
So, one month of the quarter, one third of the time will be affected, so that may result in dismal revenues this quarter as well?
Mahendra Nahata
I don’t think you are right in saying that.
Out of three months, some 20 days have gone bad doesn’t mean that this quarter’s revenue would be bad.
Moderator · Conference Operator
Thank you.
The next question is a follow-up from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Company.
Please go ahead.
Saket Kapoor
Sir, on the promoters’ holding also, what should be the ballparks that you are looking, say for 5 years from now?
Our promoters’ holding is at around, I think 38-39% today, so?
Mahendra Nahata
I can't answer Mr. Kapoor that how much would we increase in promoters’ holding.
Right now, it is 38%.
Saket Kapoor
You are comfortable with 38% that is what my understanding was?
Mahendra Nahata
I am comfortable, absolutely.
Saket Kapoor
You are comfortable with 38% promoters’ holding?
Mahendra Nahata
Yes.
Saket Kapoor
I think things are answered and we are hoping for a better quarter 4 both on the topline and bottom-line.
Thank you.
Moderator · Conference Operator
Thank you.
As there are no further questions from the participants, I would like to hand the conference over to Mr. Mahendra Nahata for closing comments.
Mahendra Nahata
Thank you gentlemen to all of you for paying attention and being in this conference call and we certainly as I said, first 9 months of this year had been better than the last year’s 9 months and we expect to keep on delivering the same performance for the whole year.
Quarter 3 was little below the mark because of various reasons I explained to you.
Quarter 4, we expect is going to be coming to the normalcy because things have started turning on a positive side whether you talk of weather conditions, whether we talk of situation in Jammu & Kashmir, where we talk of orders in terms of deliverable orders in the current quarter, so we expect to be out from this little bit subdued performance in the quarter 3 and the quarter 4 and order book remains good.
R&D efforts are on which would give a better improved margin to the Company.
In near future, HFCL January 21, 2020 the R&D products which were designed, Wi-Fi is an example, are showing good traction from customers, UBR radios which have been our own designed are showing good traction from customers.
So we hope for a good quarter 4 and thank you very much once again for participating in this call.
Thank you very much.
Moderator · Conference Operator
Thank you.
On behalf of Maybank Kim Eng Securities, that concludes this conference.
Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. ****************************