IRCTC — earnings call

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Prepared remarks

CORPORATION LIMITED · Management

Indian Railway Catering and Tourism Corporation Limited May 29, 2025

Moderator · Conference Operator

MR. RAHUL JAIN – DOLAT CAPITAL MARKETS PRIVATE LIMITED

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the IRCTC Limited Q4 and FY '25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Dolat Capital Markets Private Limited.

As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes.

Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone.

Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital.

Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Rahul Jain

Thank you, Muskan.

Good afternoon, everyone.

On behalf of Dolat Capital, we welcome you

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you very much.

We will now begin the question and answer session.

The first question is from the line of Navani Naredi from Naredi Investment.

Please go ahead.

Navani Naredi

I've got two, three questions.

So my first question is, what is the status of payment aggregator license applied to RBI?

And second is there is a significant increase in bills receivables and current assets.

So is it the payment pending from the state government involved in the tourism of senior citizens to religious spaces?

If yes, for how long they will be paying us back?

And my third question is that there is a significant increase in the revenue from tourism vertical also.

So what is the scope and opportunities coming ahead and growth ahead from this vertical?

So these are my three questions?

Sanjay Jain

Yes.

Good questions.

As about the RBI license, we have submitted in principle approval with RBI in December '24.

They have asked for certain clarification, which we have already replied and awaiting their response.

Navani Naredi

So when can we expect the response from the same?

Sanjay Jain

They take their own time, but we are chasing it.

Secondly, your question about bills receivables, this is largely with Indian Railways.

And you know this is our parent organization, and we have a huge business.

Largely IRCTC is dependent on their business.

So we are getting it clear from time to time.

And revenue tourism, as you correctly pointed out, that the revenue tourism in the last quarter has increased very high, and the momentum has already achieved.

And we are likely to take tourism further for growth of our company.

That's what we have committed in our earlier con call of Q3 and before that.

Thank you.

Navani Naredi

All right.

But I have a follow-up questions on the same.

So the thing which -- like as you mentioned that it is on account of the parent company.

I agree to that.

But my question is like from like for how long the bills receivables will get cleared?

And are these going to clear in the next few quarters or will this amount stay the same?

Indian Railway Catering and Tourism Corporation Limited May 29, 2025

Sanjay Jain

You see, there is a process and now I'm happy to inform you that we have already introduced a system whereby we get certain percentage of our bills outstanding as an advance.

The moment we book the tickets, we get the advance.

So this process challenges we are working on to it, but there is no worry so far as bill clearance are concerned.

Thank you.

Navani Naredi

All right.

And also about the tourism vertical.

So what -- are we planning new things ahead or we will be able to maintain the current revenue growth in the upcoming quarters also?

Sanjay Jain

You see revenue from tourism will grow and grow only.

That much I can say.

Navani Naredi

Okay.

All right.

Thanks for the opportunity I will get back in the queue.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Jinesh Joshi from PL Capital.

Please go ahead.

Jinesh Joshi

Thanks for the opportunity.

Sir, our catering revenue was flat in this quarter.

I believe due to Mahakumbh, we should have got an additional boost because a lot many special trains were being run.

And if I'm not mistaken, some additional Bharat Gaurav trains were also being run.

So in that context, why is the revenue flat?

If you can just explain the reasons behind that?

Sanjay Jain

That's a good question, Joshi.

You see, if you compare Q4 of this year with Q4 of last year, you will find one distinct difference that this year, Mahakumbh, when the trains were run, these were without catering facility because the main target of government was to take more and more passengers to the Mahakumbh and clear the rush from there.

So these TOD trains were largely without catering facility as a prepaid trains.

But last quarter, in the quarter '24, we have a quite good chunk of Aastha Express we run for Ayodhya.

And there, our catering facilities were there.

So this is the main cause of Q4 getting flat, but there is nothing to worry about it, first thing.

Second thing, this Bharat Gaurav train is not related to our catering business.

It is related to tourism and which has grew around 12% this year.

Jinesh Joshi

Sure.

And sir, I mean, we recorded an exceptional gain of about INR45 crores in this quarter.

And I think some INR40 crores pertains to some one time reconciliation of the legacy business.

I think that is what is stated in your footnote.

So can you please explain what does this exactly pertain to?

Sanjay Jain

See, we have legacy items since many years.

And this year, we could clear the legacy transactions.

And one time you are right that we have gained a onetime revenue out of this.

And this was essentially required to clean up our balance sheet.

And management has taken -- BOD has taken an initiative that we should clean our balance sheet, and that's why it has happened.

And there are two more factors to that.

One is some dues payable to KTDC, Karnataka Tourism Development Corporation.

We have taken some negotiation.

And due to that, we got back some money, which was due.

Secondly, around excess provisioning of PRP of around INR5 crores were again got back.

So that's the reason.

Indian Railway Catering and Tourism Corporation Limited May 29, 2025

Jinesh Joshi

Sorry, sir, I'm harping on this again, but the KTDC thing and the excess provisioning thing is a bit self-explanatory in nature.

The second part, which has a chunky gain of about INR40 crores, just mentioned that a net impact of onetime reconciliation of legacy business.

So I'm still not clear which segment does it pertain to?

And what kind of legacy business are we talking about?

Sanjay Jain

This is related to different segments.

If you want a breakup segment-wise, that also I can provide you.

We'll send it to you.

No problem.

Jinesh Joshi

One last question from my side.

If you can just share the number of tickets booked and the convenience income for 4Q?

And also, if you can share the AC and non-AC ticketing mix for this quarter?

Sanjay Jain

Daily average ticket booking this quarter is INR14.33 lakhs per day as against INR12.91 lakhs per day last -- around 11%.

What's your next question, please?

Jinesh Joshi

Convenience fee income in 4Q?

Sanjay Jain

Convenience fee for Q4 was INR242 crores as against INR224 crores last year.

Jinesh Joshi

Sure.

And sir, the AC and non-AC mix and share of UPI, if you can give the quantum for the full year, that will be very helpful?

Sanjay Jain

The UPI is around 47.68% in Q4. This UPI for the whole year is 46.27%.

Jinesh Joshi

And the AC quantum, AC ticketing quantum in percentage terms?

Sanjay Jain

AC in this quarter, you want the complete year or the...

Jinesh Joshi

Full year.

No, sir, full year will be helpful?

Sanjay Jain

It is 2,525 lakhs AC and non-AC is 1,952.7 lakhs.

Jinesh Joshi

1,952.7 lakhs?

Sanjay Jain

And 2S is 586.7 lakhs.

So total ticket is 5,065 lakhs.

Jinesh Joshi

Okay, sir.

Thank you so much.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next participant is Hardik an Individual Investor.

Please go ahead.

Hardik

So my first question was regarding the payment aggregator license, which you have already answered.

My second question is regarding the Tejas trains.

I remember the commentary from management when Tejas train was first launched, we were anticipating a breakeven in the first year, but surprisingly, we got the breakeven in the first quarter itself.

So if you can give some numbers, how Tejas is performing?

And if you can give some kind of bifurcation in the Internet ticketing business, that would be helpful?

Sanjay Jain

Yes.

Tejas occupancy in this quarter, we are running two Tejas Express.

And the average occupancy in this quarter is 93.2% as against last -- Q4 last year, 85%.

Indian Railway Catering and Tourism Corporation Limited May 29, 2025

Hardik

Okay.

And sir, can you give some bifurcation of revenue or profits in the Internet ticketing segment of Tejas train?

How is the percentage of the figures in the overall segment result or profit results?

Sanjay Jain

I can give you revenue -- both the Tejas 2 put together, we have around INR9.18 crores of profit on a revenue of INR177 crores.

Hardik

Okay.

Thank you, sir.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Navani Naredi from Naredi Investments.

Please go ahead.

Navani Naredi

So I just wanted to know like which are trains work in the tourism sector.

And I didn't get like there is an increase in current assets.

So what is the reason behind it?

Sanjay Jain

Yes.

We are running Bharat Gaurav train.

We are also running Maharajas' Express and Golden Chariot.

And current assets has increased because of increase in debtors.

Navani Naredi

All right.

Okay.

That’s all from my end.

Thank you.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Hitesh an Individual Investor.

Please go ahead.

Hitesh

First of all, congratulations on a good set of numbers.

I have a couple of questions.

My first one has two parts to it.

There was a news sometime back that like earlier, IRCTC was taking reservations on a 6-month basis, advanced ticketing reservations, which was changed to 2 months reservation instead of 6 months.

So I would like to know the reason behind that.

And any near-term or short-term challenges that you might see related to the change in government policies or something that might affect your business?

Sanjay Jain

Thank you, Hitesh.

First of all, let me clear you that changing the number of days will not make any difference on our business.

And that we cleared through stock exchange also, and we have submitted an information to that.

And how many days prior ARN should be made for booking a reserve ticket is a purely decision of Government of India, Ministry of Railways.

IRCTC has no role into this.

But I can assure you that this will not be any like concern for us.

Thank you.

Hitesh

And any near-term challenges or roadblocks that you see related to the government policies for like its impact or something on our business?

Sanjay Jain

Related to what?

Hitesh

One more news articles was there is like sometime back?

Sanjay Jain

Just a moment, relating to what?

Hitesh

[inaudible 27:24] I think it is related to financial year '21 in which just when the government convenience-seeking share demand from the IRCTC, which was opposed by the shareholders.

So, the government rolled back?

Indian Railway Catering and Tourism Corporation Limited May 29, 2025

Sanjay Jain

That matter was already resolved and we are getting a stronger and better business, that much I can say.

Thank you.

Hitesh

Okay.

I will come back in the queue.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Shrinarayan Mishra from Baroda BNP Paribas.

Please go ahead.

Shrinarayan Mishra

Sir, can you highlight if there will be additional monetization features with the launch of news app which is SwaRail?

Hello.

Am I audible?

Moderator · Conference Operator

Yes, sir.

You are audible.

Shrinarayan Mishra

Should I repeat?

Sanjay Jain

You want to know the SwaRail feature?

Shrinarayan Mishra

Yes, sir.

SwaRail, will there be any additional monetization for us for any new feature, which will be coming in, additional source of revenue?

Sanjay Jain

SwaRail provides reservation -- tickets for reservation, UTS, parcel, goods and any business related to railway.

We are dealing only with one part of it, that is reservation, so reserve ticketing.

So far, ticketing is concerned, it will continue like that.

And we are not entering into other ventures.

Thank you.

Shrinarayan Mishra

Okay.

And sir, any update on the RBI payment aggregator license?

Is there any time line to it or no update?

Sanjay Jain

We are likely to get this in principle approval in this quarter, I believe, or next 2 months, 3 months.

Shrinarayan Mishra

So this will help us to improve margins, right?

Sanjay Jain

No, then we'll have to go for final approval.

That will take around a year.

Shrinarayan Mishra

Okay.

So after a year, the effect will be visible?

Sanjay Jain

Yes.

Shrinarayan Mishra

Okay.

Got it.

Thank you.

I will get back in the queue.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Hardik an Individual Investor.

Please go ahead.

Hardik

Sir, can you give us some numbers be it Zomato, Swiggy, how are they performing?

Moderator · Conference Operator

Your voice is not audible properly.

Can you speak a little louder, please?

Hardik

Am I audible now?

Indian Railway Catering and Tourism Corporation Limited May 29, 2025

Moderator · Conference Operator

Yes, now it's better.

Hardik

Yes.

So can you give [inaudible 30:53] on the Zomato and Swiggy, how are they performing?

And how many [inaudible 30:59] with Zomato and Swiggy in IRCTC?

Sanjay Jain

Yes, I will not be able to provide you specific to Zomato or Swiggy, but I can give you a picture of our e-catering business, which will clearly indicate you how they are performing.

Like annually, we grew from INR33 crores last year to INR54 crores this year.

That is a growth of 63%.

And in Q4 itself, we have grown from INR9 crores to INR15 crores.

That is a 53% increase.

Thank you very much, in the revenue.

Hardik

Thank you, sir.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital.

Please go ahead.

Rahul Jain

My first question pertains to the business of catering.

We had in past some of the repricing opportunity available to us because there was some litigation pending in some of the vendors who did not come back to the pricing, which was suggested after the COVID situation.

So any clarity on what is the status for that vendor?

And what more -- what is the percentage of total vendors which are still not on the revised pricing, if you could share that?

Sanjay Jain

The matter of self-assessment is under dispute and under litigation.

Rahul Jain

Okay.

Is there any time lines that one could possibly consider?

I understand matter sub-judice, so difficult to quantify.

But anything that this is the situation of the current proceeding that one should -- one should expect this to happen?

Sanjay Jain

It depends on the wisdom of honorable court, which we cannot challenge, but it's an ongoing process.

Thank You.

Rahul Jain

Right.

And on the tourism side, like we got a good fillip from one mega festival in the previous quarter.

So similarly, are there any bigger events lined up for this year, which are typically the driver for us in this business, be it in terms of any election related or any other?

Sanjay Jain

There is a noise from behind, and I'm not able to listen what you want to say.

Please ask others to keep silent and then you can narrate.

Rahul Jain

Yes.

Is this any better, sir?

Sanjay Jain

Yes.

Rahul Jain

Sorry for that.

So I was saying that in the tourism business, are we seeing any upcoming trigger, which could possibly drive the growth like what we saw with Mahakumbh in the previous quarter?

Is there any major upcoming event that should be a driver for growth for us in the tourism segment?

Indian Railway Catering and Tourism Corporation Limited May 29, 2025

Sanjay Jain

You see, you must be listening government policy nowadays that government is all up increasing the employment and because of tourism.

So it is in the -- as it is in the radar of government, we are the arm to execute that.

So we can see it hopefully in the best possible.

Thank You.

Rahul Jain

Right.

And just the from the newer initiative, a couple of years back, we have -- in one of our annual report, we have articulated the strategy around growing the non-railway part of the revenue for the business.

Are there any new initiative that we are contemplating, which is beyond the railway ecosystem or any new revenue stream within railway ecosystem that we could be chasing other than the current line of businesses?

Sanjay Jain

Yes.

So basically, you have two questions.

One is what is the non-railway revenue.

So we have around 30% we are going in the non-railway revenue also.

And we are planning to merge our - - all the OTA platforms for improving our hotel bookings and MICE activities and air bookings, we are planning to have a unified portal and which will be a good trigger to give a good business going forward, non-railway.

Rahul Jain

Right.

So on the 30% part, which you just said, you are saying the eventual goal is to make it 30% outside railway or you're saying the current revenue stream also includes a lot of non- railway revenue?

Sanjay Jain

No, no. This is what at present scenario.

This 28% is the air packages we are booking.

Rahul Jain

You mean to say within the tourism revenue, 28% is coming from air packages?

Sanjay Jain

No, 28% is the growth in our non-railway tourism, particularly air packages.

Like our air packages last financial year was INR68 crores.

This year, it is INR87 crores.

So we have revenue growth of 28% over to last year.

So this segment is also growing.

That's what I wanted to say.

Rahul Jain

Understood.

That’s very helpful.

Thank you and I will join back the queue.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of Shrinarayan Mishra from Baroda BNP.

Please go ahead.

Shrinarayan Mishra

Thanks again for the follow up.

Sir, you just highlighted that we have three trains for tourism.

Can you give out the revenue and profit contribution from them?

Sanjay Jain

Bharat Gaurav train, this financial year, we have achieved INR277 crores as revenue.

Maharajas' Express, it is INR92 crores.

And Golden Chariot, it is INR2.83 crores.

Shrinarayan Mishra

And profit sir?

Sanjay Jain

Nearly 8% in the Bharat Gaurav and Maharajas' Express 18% to 20% and Golden Chariot just we started.

Shrinarayan Mishra

So we would be near to breakeven in the Golden Chariot right?

Sanjay Jain

No, it is just starting last year -- before last year, there was no train run, Golden Chariot could run.

Last year, we could operate three Golden Chariot.

This year, we have a good booking.

Indian Railway Catering and Tourism Corporation Limited May 29, 2025

Shrinarayan Mishra

Okay.

So sir, on similar lines, are we trying to add a few more trains in this segment for growth or this is how -- I mean, it will look like for FY '26 as well?

Sanjay Jain

Actually, Bharat Gaurav is not 1 train.

We are running 10 rakes of Bharat Gaurav.

We are adding one more rake to this Bharat Gaurav.

And this Bharat Gaurav as a brand, it runs and it runs on a different itinerary.

We have 16-17 itineraries on which it runs.

It is very popular itineraries, which we run.

Shrinarayan Mishra

Okay.

So additional rakes across twin trains, if you can give how many additional trains will be run this year?

Sanjay Jain

One rake we are planning under discussion.

Shrinarayan Mishra

And second question was on Amrit Bharat and Vande Bharat sleeper train.

So as more and more of these trains operational, what kind of revenue growth or growth outlook for catering business we should expect?

Sanjay Jain

Yes.

All the Vande Bharat trains are prepaid trains.

And similarly, Amrit Bharat trains are having pantry cars.

So both the things will lead to enhancement in our catering business and, of course, IT business.

Shrinarayan Mishra

Okay.

Thank you, sir.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Over to you, sir.

Sanjay Jain

Good evening to all of you.

Thank you for joining us in this con call.

This motivates us to perform better and we will continue to deliver and ensure our -- all the stakeholders and shareholders are happy.

Thank you.

Moderator · Conference Operator

Thank you.

On behalf of Dolat Capital Markets Private Limited, that concludes this conference.

Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.

Thank you.

Questions and answers

“Indian Railway Catering and Tourism Corporation Limited